Has anyone been watching ‘Little England’, the TV programme about being an expat in the Dordogne? It’s quite interesting as a reminder that we all have very different ‘expat experiences’ – and that for most people there is more to being an expat than integrating in the community.
The first thing that is clear, both from our own lives and people we know and from those in the programme, is that the ‘expat experience’ is not usually the same as the ‘local experience’. I can’t think of a single expat that we know that leads a life in France that is very similar to the lives led by the locals.
I suspect that ‘integration with the community’, which perhaps is what non-expats (or potential expats) see as the goal of moving to rural France, barely exists for many expats and only on a quite superficial level for the rest of us (except perhaps children, who because of school can find it easier to integrate, and those who marry French partners).
Of course, many expats get involved with the community at different levels – chatting to French friends in the market, becoming a member of the local council or school committee perhaps, occasionally having French neighbours over to dinner or helping to organise village fetes…but only rarely does that seem to result in an expat living in all respects as the locals do.
This isn’t just an English thing. The same certainly applies to Dutch people, and even Parisians, who move to this area of France. There is always a distance between them and the local community, and people from similar backgrounds and of similar origins tend naturally to group together.
When we first arrived I would have probably said that being part of an ‘expat community’ rather than the ‘local community’ was a BAD THING, and to some extent it probably has its downside, diminishing the French experience.
But I wonder if the ‘French experience’ really exists for most expats? Rather, I think that expats have a completely different experience, neither French nor English.
Take another look at the people in the Little England programme. Most of them seem to be enjoying themselves perfectly happily as part of the English community. Is there a problem with expats creating their own enclave in France, having a good time and starting businesses that target other expats? Playing golf with other expats? Or buying up large parts of Dordogne villages?
Given the amount of doom and gloom in the world, I certainly got the impression that most of the expats on the programme were happier than most, had plenty of friends, and are living where they want to live and doing what they want to do.
Does it do any harm to a French community to have groups of English people hanging about, spending money in the shops, helping to keep restaurants busy in the quiet season or bringing new life to derelict properties? I wouldn’t have thought so, and I doubt if many would think it actually threatens the original French community.
The reason I talk about all this is to give food for thought to those people who are considering moving to France to live. While it is certainly possible to come to France, learn the language and become an enthusiastic member of the local community, perhaps made easier by finding a part of rural France where no expat has been before, this is not (as far as I know) the ‘normal’ expat experience.
Neither experience is better or worse, but the two are very different, and it is important to understand what you are looking for when you decide to settle here in France. It’s for you to decide!
I haven’t seen this. What channel/time is it on?
Just found it;
http://www.itv.com/presscentre/littleengland/ep01week37/default.html
It clashes with Eastenders so I won’t be allowed within 10 feet of the TV.
It’s a question I have often pondered, I think if you have shared interests, say if you have come from being a farmer in another European country to being a farmer here, you would integrate. Likewise if you are handy with a shot gun and join the chasse and the related social events. What I am sure of is that there is no resentment, my neighbour has often told me how the village would have died a slow death if there hadn’t been a big influx of foreigners and all the carefully restored barns and farmhouses would have been left to crumble.
We’ve only been here a couple of years but I think we’re integrating fine for this stage. Of course, as Cathy above suggests we don’t get much choice except to integrate because we are farmers. And the four kids (one born here) help us integrate with the non-farming families. You can also join the Pompiers which gives the locals a reason to work with you, at least when they set their chimney on fire.
Now I still need to write my blog in French and spend more time talking to people and less to cows.
Also, there just aren’t many English near us and you guys do seem a little foreign to us Americans!
In our old village (before we found the farm) there was a much stronger British ex-pat network and they were totally awesome. It was unexpected and very rewarding how good living with the ex-pats could be.
Ah yes, i can well imagine that buying and running a farm would be a pretty good way of integrating and learning the language. Bit too much like hard work for me I think!
Whilst I am not a full time ex pat, I have to day that I feel more integrated in France that I do here in London. Granted London is a big city but we do live in the suburbs. My French neighbours have welcomed us with open arms the same can not be said about our English neighbours.
I do think it depends on what work you do. I work with mostly French colleagues here and my best friend is French. I also have a French child. In my area of the Lot there are a lot of English, but not as many as in the Dordogne. It is quite easy to pick or choose whether you socialise with other ex pats or with the French.
Lesley, that’s good to hear (I think!)
I wasn’t so much thinking about whether French communities are welcoming or not, I know that varies a lot from one place to another, and also how much effort a new arrival makes, I was wondering more whether the ‘birds of a feather flock together’ principle always wins out and expats end up doing things together.
Although I’m getting the idea from Liz and BC that if people arrive and actually work in a completely French environment (even better marry a French person) things are rather different – many (but not all) of the expats we know that work tend to be working for other expats.
I think the work idea is very good – the most integrated people we know are those who actually with French people quite a bit of the time.
It makes me think that getting a job (even if its low paid and someone doesn’t actually need to work) would be a pretty good idea. I’m guessing that most people could get some kind of work – fruit picking, in a tourist office or estate agent perhaps, giving english lessons maybe, or even doing voluntary work – if they were persistent enough. But I haven’t tried and could be wrong.
Just as an aside, try reversing the picture. If a French ex-pat community were in, say, Maidstone. How would the Kentish men (or are they Men of Kent?) react? I’d like to think that they would be as pleased with the incomers as our neighbours are here in France.
I would also guess that a French family moving into a community in Kent would be made welcome. But what if lots of retired French started moving in to a small farming community in Yorkshire? I don’t think they’d get any hostility, and would most likely be made welcome, but I am less sure whether they would actually fit into the local community and share the day to day experiences of the local folk – or mostly stay as a separate group because of their shared interests, language, background etc.
I understand that the French in London for example tend to live in groups, such as in parts of Kengsington where there are French shops, schools etc (and of course many nationalities do group together, in almost every city in the world). Even Paris has a Chinatown…
You just know what makes your home country tick. Having lived in France and Germany we decided we would retire in our home country in England. We would not live either in Wales or Scotland for the same reason. We have lots of room in our part of Norfolk and it could not suit us better.
I moved to France with my French Ex-wife. I do not work in France, but continue to live in France because 1)I like it here 2)My kids are with my Ex-wife here… And I stress in that order too, because with my job I can live anywhere as long as it is near an airport, and likewise its easy to put the kids on an aeroplane for holidays these days.
I can honestly say I do not actually know any English poeple living here in France. I have a few English speaking French Friends (but we speak french together) and I know an English speaking Dutch couple, so I guess that when I am in France I have no choice but to be integrated!!
I think your last paragraph is most important – expats need to have thought through why they want to move to France and what type of life/lifestyle they want when they get here.
For my husband & I, it would have been our worst nightmare to have found ourselves within an English enclave, and we spent several years looking until we found the ideal place (for us) to settle with our children.
However, neither of us think any the worse of the Expats that choose to move to a specific area/village because there are lots of similar English people around.
Living in a small hamlet of only 50 people, and as the only English in the whole commune, we are treated by our neighbours and friends very much as fully integrated members of this small isolated community.
We both wonder if, having grown-up in little villages in the UK, we have some understanding and (to a certain extent) appreciation of the mechanics of village life, and that this has helped us to fit in.
You should start a love affair with 1 or 2 French women!
It will help you for the language and it is an experience close to the French traditional culture…!
Moreover it is a good way to contain this natural communitarianism which is seen in France like a threat to the hallowed French Republic!
There is a real struggle in the French general conscience against the creation of any community. On this point, the British laissez-faire is analysed as a big error.
The French commitment to laicité (non religious nature) is also linked with this concept. To be French: only 1 definition (=you love cheese?), France is not a sum of different communities (general belief and aspiration). So I can tell you that the creation of expat communities (in Dordogne for example) is not appreciated (in general). I should rather say that people are even irritated by that way of hermetic behaviour as birds of the same leather!
“Does it do any harm to a French community to have groups of English people hanging about, spending money in the shops (…)”
-> if you organize a poll, I bet heavily the yes would win!
(moreover it has already been explained by our former Prime Minister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGwJw1wneCk)
Thanks Dominique, a very useful explanation and I can understand that the idea of a ‘community’ encompassing the whole nation is better developed in France than in the UK.
I suspect Parisians are also often considered to be outside the ‘natural ‘community of the French’, perhaps because they also are though to be too laissez-faire?
The best thing to do is, start a new life and go ahead.
Try to understand the local team.Don´t go living together with a bunch of expat´s.
Make it your way in the French comunity, enjoy your time and let things happen on a natural way.
I´m an expat living in Brazil and I´m very happy here.
What´s the secret: Be normal, open the door of your heart and wait.
You will see the results.
Please enter my blog: humyborari.blogspot.com
Dominique – ROTFL!! – I’m afraid I have benn and done the whole “french women” thing, have a couple of T-shirts and I am not convinced…..Distinctly wacky emotional high maintenence creatures, are french women I’ve been involved with!!
Hi.. I have been watching “Little Britain” on last weeks episode I was intrigued to lean that the ex-pat community missed certain grocery items…
I’m now wondering if there may be a business opportunity to supply ex-pat’s with the groceries they require. The guy currently supplying this service delivers once a fortnight, is there a need for a weekly run? What are your costs etc etc…
Any feed back would be appreciated.
Regards
Ray
Hi Ray, this was in the news quite a lot a while back – take a look at http://www.francethisway.com/wp/expats-buying-shopping-in-britain/2010/07/ and the comments people have left on that article.
We knew one of the drivers for one of the companies that imported shopping to expats and I always thought it sounded a bit unprofitable by the time you had driven to the UK and back an then delivered to far-flung corners of the region, but I’m not at all up to date on prices in UK shops compared with French shops. Certainly a lot of ‘UK shops’ in France seem to have opened and closed over the years – French supermarkets tend to have a lot of things like baked beans and mango chutney nowadays…
Assuming 20 expat-shoppers want to spend £50 a week on shopping (which I guess would be as much as a van could hold) and are happy to pay you an extra £10 a week because things are so cheap in the UK, you would make £200 a week – but petrol and ferries have to be paid out of that, so it’s not clear how you would make much money out of it. But perhaps my guesstimates are completely wrong? Perhaps a van can hold shopping for 50 or 100 people?
Rob: yes, French women are often emotioanal high maintenance !
I suggest you do some research with the help of Frenchmen who, I am sure, will be glad to help you on the difficult path leading to a French woman’s heart…