Comments on: Pompe a chaleur – reduce your heating bills, at what cost? http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/ Living in France and daily life for a UK expat in the French blog! Thu, 24 May 2012 13:33:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Chris Skerry http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-20948 Chris Skerry Sun, 20 Mar 2011 08:57:38 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-20948 The pump is now installed and working. There were a large number of initial problems to be sorted out. I think it is now almost correct - just a few tweaks to go. The system works well and as the heat pump efficiency is theoretically 4.25, when I put in 1 Kw, I get 4.25 Kw out. If you are interested in the detail there is a complete story here http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164 The pump is now installed and working. There were a large number of initial problems to be sorted out. I think it is now almost correct – just a few tweaks to go. The system works well and as the heat pump efficiency is theoretically 4.25, when I put in 1 Kw, I get 4.25 Kw out.

If you are interested in the detail there is a complete story here

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164

]]> By: Chris Skerry http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-18472 Chris Skerry Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:00:05 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-18472 Boris, Thanks for your kind words. It seems that installing a heat pump can be a very risky financial activity. I am fairly confident that mine has been installed correctly, but I am not at all confident that the huge variety of parameters are set up correctly. When the heating season starts, I will try as hard as I can to ensure the parameters are set correctly. With underfloor heating which has a huge thermal mass and is very slow to react, I should be able to have long 'on-cycles' which I believe are the most efficient for a heat pump. There is no way I will live long enough to get my money back. I have done it because it is a project I find very interesting. Perhaps the next owner will reap the benefits. We shall see. . . . . . Boris, Thanks for your kind words. It seems that installing a heat pump can be a very risky financial activity. I am fairly confident that mine has been installed correctly, but I am not at all confident that the huge variety of parameters are set up correctly.

When the heating season starts, I will try as hard as I can to ensure the parameters are set correctly. With underfloor heating which has a huge thermal mass and is very slow to react, I should be able to have long ‘on-cycles’ which I believe are the most efficient for a heat pump.

There is no way I will live long enough to get my money back. I have done it because it is a project I find very interesting. Perhaps the next owner will reap the benefits.

We shall see. . . . . .

]]> By: Boris http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-18456 Boris Wed, 22 Sep 2010 04:04:29 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-18456 Hi Chris, that's good to hear and thanks for the link giving your story, lots of useful information to think about. In a few months it'll be interesting to hear how efficiently it works when it gets cold. I like the idea of using Swedish technology. The pdf document showing the results of an extended heat pump trial referred to is also interesting - download from <a href="http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Heat-pump-field-trial/Getting-warmer-a-field-trial-of-heat-pumps-PDF" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Shows that they can work, but correct installation and use are important to get satisfactory results, among other things. But I noticed it said that (in the UK) the payback period compared with a new fuel based installation is 29 years. A long time, probably longer that the life of the heat pump I imagine. So if the system costs more in France (probable) it is likely not to be efficient in terms of cost savings, although almost always efficient at reducing carbon emissions, the reports primary concern. Also 'if a heat pump is installed even slightly wrong, the outcome for the customer may be very wrong' - correct installation is critically important. Cheers again. Hi Chris, that’s good to hear and thanks for the link giving your story, lots of useful information to think about. In a few months it’ll be interesting to hear how efficiently it works when it gets cold. I like the idea of using Swedish technology.
The pdf document showing the results of an extended heat pump trial referred to is also interesting – download from here. Shows that they can work, but correct installation and use are important to get satisfactory results, among other things.
But I noticed it said that (in the UK) the payback period compared with a new fuel based installation is 29 years. A long time, probably longer that the life of the heat pump I imagine. So if the system costs more in France (probable) it is likely not to be efficient in terms of cost savings, although almost always efficient at reducing carbon emissions, the reports primary concern.
Also ‘if a heat pump is installed even slightly wrong, the outcome for the customer may be very wrong’ – correct installation is critically important.
Cheers again.

]]> By: Chris Skerry http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-18455 Chris Skerry Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:40:46 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-18455 It is now September 2010 and my system is just installed. I am pleased with it, but can't tell you how good it is because the heating season has not yet started. If you are interested look at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164 It is now September 2010 and my system is just installed. I am pleased with it, but can’t tell you how good it is because the heating season has not yet started.

If you are interested look at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164

]]> By: laurence http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-18361 laurence Mon, 13 Sep 2010 05:39:09 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-18361 We have studied the pros and cons of heat pumps ( pacs ) and geothermal . The problem with pacs is that they become less efficient, i.e. give out less heat or less cold air, as the external temperature gets colder or hotter respectively. To the point where at an external temperature minus 15° the pac gives no heat whatsoever. So the more you need heat the less it gives you. Therefore you have to have a back-up heating system which rather defeats the object. As to ground source/geothermal , the main drawback is that it can only ever give about 12° of heating when most people want 20°. Its best use is as underfloor heating in a small new-build , well insulated. The system we looked at needed 12kw of dedicated 3 phase electricity , when the heatpump kicked in. That is total electricity supply to the average house. As to grants, it seems that the grants are only paid to cover the labour cost, and then only to registered French installers. The labour cost is in direction proportion to the amount of the grant. There are a couple of other gadgets that should be viewed with scepticism, for example the pac pre-boiler, that is connected to the central heating circuit. It will never never repay its cost. We have studied the pros and cons of heat pumps ( pacs ) and geothermal . The problem with pacs is that they become less efficient, i.e. give out less heat or less cold air, as the external temperature gets colder or hotter respectively. To the point where at an external temperature minus 15° the pac gives no heat whatsoever. So the more you need heat the less it gives you. Therefore you have to have a back-up heating system which rather defeats the object. As to ground source/geothermal , the main drawback is that it can only ever give about 12° of heating when most people want 20°. Its best use is as underfloor heating in a small new-build , well insulated. The system we looked at needed 12kw of dedicated 3 phase electricity , when the heatpump kicked in. That is total electricity supply to the average house. As to grants, it seems that the grants are only paid to cover the labour cost, and then only to registered French installers. The labour cost is in direction proportion to the amount of the grant. There are a couple of other gadgets that should be viewed with scepticism, for example the pac pre-boiler, that is connected to the central heating circuit. It will never never repay its cost.

]]> By: Chris Skerry http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-16035 Chris Skerry Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:48:47 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-16035 I am investigating a PAC with two 100 meter bore holes. The potential installer is www.geothermic.fr in the Vendée (D=85). Does anyone know if they are any good? They make the PAC and also own the company that drills the holes. In my studies on heat pumps, I have come across a website that says that EDF will still give a Tempo tariff. They wont be keen, but can be persuaded. I pay about 4 centimes per kw/h (on a blue day - the cheapest) in France, and 12.5 pence all the time in the UK. It seems that running out of coal was good for France. I am investigating a PAC with two 100 meter bore holes. The potential installer is http://www.geothermic.fr in the Vendée (D=85). Does anyone know if they are any good? They make the PAC and also own the company that drills the holes.

In my studies on heat pumps, I have come across a website that says that EDF will still give a Tempo tariff. They wont be keen, but can be persuaded. I pay about 4 centimes per kw/h (on a blue day – the cheapest) in France, and 12.5 pence all the time in the UK. It seems that running out of coal was good for France.

]]> By: Boris http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-15654 Boris Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:11:28 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-15654 Interestingly our friends did a lot of research a year ago and decided the same - but they have just come across a new pompe a chaleur system that claims to be much more efficient and much more cost effective. It is also very large (1 cubic metre?) and heavy. I remain very sceptical, mostly regarding efficiency and electricity bills when the temperature drops below a few degrees - but they say it is more convincing than the ones that were around a year ago. I'm looking forward to hearing how it works for them. Interestingly our friends did a lot of research a year ago and decided the same – but they have just come across a new pompe a chaleur system that claims to be much more efficient and much more cost effective. It is also very large (1 cubic metre?) and heavy.
I remain very sceptical, mostly regarding efficiency and electricity bills when the temperature drops below a few degrees – but they say it is more convincing than the ones that were around a year ago. I’m looking forward to hearing how it works for them.

]]> By: Johnny Norfolk http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-15651 Johnny Norfolk Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:27:56 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-15651 Every time I have looked at things like this. The cost saving return period is just far to long. So I have let my head rule my heart and nevr gone down this road. I have yet to find any of these syatems when their claimed pay back periods are correct. I must say I am finding your posts very interesting. Its so good to read so many interesting pieces. Mrs N is not at all happy that I have found your site as I am spending ( in her opinion) far to much time on the PC dreaming about France. Every time I have looked at things like this. The cost saving return period is just far to long. So I have let my head rule my heart and nevr gone down this road. I have yet to find any of these syatems when their claimed pay back periods are correct.

I must say I am finding your posts very interesting. Its so good to read so many interesting pieces. Mrs N is not at all happy that I have found your site as I am spending ( in her opinion) far to much time on the PC dreaming about France.

]]> By: Jean Halford-Thompson http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-14865 Jean Halford-Thompson Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:56:07 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-14865 EGP is indeed pre-Tempo with the 22 ultra expensive days and the rest ultra cheap. No in between as with Tempo. EDF stopped it 10 years ago as it was so popular they were losing money! We could shoot rabbits and make the coats/eat the meat - or at least we could have done up to last year. We were over run with the little blighters who ate EVERYTHING out of the veggie plot. Now they seem to have settled down again in number and although I see one most days they are no longer such a problem. Back to ebay I fear! Forage is certainly more expensive but more efficient (so they say! I wouldn't know). To be honest, we don't have any aspirations of ever getting our room temperature above 17 degrees during the winter (and that's on a warm day!). We just want to know that we don't have to mortgage the house to achieve that 17 degrees. We are not complaining about the cold - after all we chose to live in this beautiful old house - just searching for ways to stop our teeth chattering so that we could complain if we wanted to! EGP is indeed pre-Tempo with the 22 ultra expensive days and the rest ultra cheap. No in between as with Tempo. EDF stopped it 10 years ago as it was so popular they were losing money!

We could shoot rabbits and make the coats/eat the meat – or at least we could have done up to last year. We were over run with the little blighters who ate EVERYTHING out of the veggie plot. Now they seem to have settled down again in number and although I see one most days they are no longer such a problem. Back to ebay I fear!

Forage is certainly more expensive but more efficient (so they say! I wouldn’t know). To be honest, we don’t have any aspirations of ever getting our room temperature above 17 degrees during the winter (and that’s on a warm day!). We just want to know that we don’t have to mortgage the house to achieve that 17 degrees. We are not complaining about the cold – after all we chose to live in this beautiful old house – just searching for ways to stop our teeth chattering so that we could complain if we wanted to!

]]> By: Boris http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/comment-page-1/#comment-14864 Boris Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:30:29 +0000 http://www.francethisway.com/wp/pompe-a-chaleur-reduce-your-heating-bills-at-what-cost/2008/06/#comment-14864 If anyone has knowledge of the value of a second hand stove please post here. I can forward your details to kathy if required. Cheers If anyone has knowledge of the value of a second hand stove please post here. I can forward your details to kathy if required.
Cheers

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